Higher Ed Chats
April 24th, 2025
24 minutes
How Higher Education is Transforming in the US
Clarke brings an unusual lens to this conversation. He trained as a physicist in Manchester and Leeds, spent years at Accenture, earned an MBA, and landed in higher education leadership. That background shapes how he reads the current moment: practically, and without sentimentality.
The damage from US immigration policy, Clarke argues, is as much about narrative as legal reality. Visa inconsistency and uncertainty around OPT and H-1B pathways have created hesitation among prospective international students, even when individual cases aren't directly affected. And those students now have real alternatives. Australia, the UK, Singapore, and China are all competing aggressively for talent that once defaulted to the US. With 19% of DePauw's admitted class being international students, Clarke has watched this shift up close.
The enrollment cliff gets plenty of coverage in higher ed circles, but Clarke frames it as one piece of a larger, over-determined problem. Demographic decline, population migration between states, interstate competition between institutions, and a growing segment of young people opting out of college entirely, without social stigma, are all compounding at the same time. The ROI conversation is no longer just background noise.
That's where DePauw's response gets interesting. The university launched a new School of Business and Leadership that extends, rather than abandons, its liberal arts identity. The bet: the skills that liberal arts develops, asking good questions, handling ambiguity, giving and receiving feedback, communicating across contexts, are exactly what employers say graduates lack. Clarke cites research from the head of Deloitte's higher education practice: 20 to 40% of graduates don't have the skills required to succeed in the workforce. The skills missing aren't technical. They're human.
The episode closes with a conversation on AI that's worth hearing on its own. Clarke's position isn't the standard academic hand-wringing about cheating. "Anybody in higher education who's talking about AI in the context of this is going to mean that students will cheat in class is missing the point," he says. His view: AI is the hardest-working, fastest intern you've ever had, one with no common sense. It amplifies what a skilled person can already do. That changes how instructors should think about their role, not whether AI belongs in the classroom.
Who’s in the episode?
John Clarke
Scott Miller is the host of Keystone Higher Ed Chats and the Executive Director of Keystone's international division, bringing over 11 years of EdTech experience to conversations about global education.
After graduating from DePauw University, living and working in different cultures showed him that stepping outside your comfort zone doesn't just broaden your horizons; it reshapes them entirely. That belief in the transformative power of international experiences brought Scott to Keystone in 2010, where he's spent over a decade (and counting) helping higher education institutions reach students worldwide.
On Keystone Higher Ed Chats, Scott speaks with thought-leaders in the industry about what he's most passionate about: how education changes lives, how cultural experiences broaden perspectives at any age, and how Keystone's mission—connecting students with their ideal higher education institution—makes those life-changing moments possible.
Timestamps & Takeaways
Timestamps
00:00
Introduction: Scott Miller welcomes John Clarke, Dean at DePauw
01:45
Clarke's background: Manchester, Leeds PhD in physics, MBA, Accenture
05:30
DePauw's identity: small liberal arts, ~12-student classes, 200-year history
09:36
International recruitment under pressure: visa inconsistency and OPT/H-1B uncertainty
10:04
How narrative damage amplifies legal risk for US-bound students
13:00
Competitive alternatives: Australia, UK, Singapore, and China gaining ground
15:53
The enrollment cliff as one piece of a larger, over-determined problem
18:00
The growing segment opting out of college entirely, without stigma
21:26
DePauw's response: launching the School of Business and Leadership
23:24
What employers actually say graduates are missing, per Deloitte research
27:48
AI in higher education: lean in or fall behind
30:25
How AI frees instructors to focus on what it can't replace
34:22
Closing reflections and wrap-up
Takeaways
Visa uncertainty is a narrative problem as much as a legal one
International student hesitation about US study isn't only driven by actual visa denials. Clarke points out that the political environment and inconsistent messaging create doubt before any legal barrier appears. Institutions that rely heavily on US-bound pipelines should audit their recruitment communications to address this perception head-on, not just track visa approval rates.
Diversify international pipelines by destination country, not just by region
Australia, the UK, Singapore, and China are gaining ground as destinations for students who would previously have chosen the US. That's not a temporary blip. Recruitment teams should map their current pipeline by destination country risk, identify where US uncertainty overlaps with their top source markets, and build contingency messaging for students weighing alternatives.
The enrollment cliff isn't a single problem — it's five problems happening at once
Demographics alone don't explain the enrollment pressure most institutions are feeling. Clarke describes compounding forces: population migration across states, interstate competition, a growing stigma-free opt-out culture, and ROI anxiety all hitting at the same time. Enrollment messaging that only addresses one of these forces won't move the needle on the others.
Start marketing ROI with the skills employers are actually asking about
Deloitte research cited by Clarke found that 20-40% of graduates lack skills executives consider essential. The shortlist isn't coding or data analysis. It's asking good questions, handling ambiguity, giving and receiving feedback, and communicating clearly. These are precisely the outcomes liberal arts programs produce. If your institution isn't leading with these specifics in enrollment marketing, you're leaving the strongest part of your case unmade.
Treat AI as a capability multiplier, not an academic integrity threat
Clarke's line is direct: "Anybody in higher education who's talking about AI in the context of this is going to mean that students will cheat in class is missing the point." The institutions building AI fluency into coursework will produce graduates who can use it well. The ones that don't will produce graduates who can't. That gap will show up in employer perception and, over time, in enrollment.
AI works best for people who already know how to do the job
Clarke's framing of AI as "your hardest working, smartest, fastest intern that's got no common sense" is practical and teachable. He's explicit that it makes him faster because he knows how to do the underlying work. For faculty and curriculum directors, this reframes the question from "how do we prevent AI use" to "how do we ensure students build the judgment AI can't supply."
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